Exclusive Interview With Tanzanian Mohamed Mnzava On Gem Dealers In Tanzania
Introduction:
In early August, Mr. Mnzava posted a comment on the Madison Dialogue List Serve: “Foreign gemstones dealers notably from USA and Europe, Far East undermine miners and governments in Africa.” His post was in response to Jim Fiebig’s work in Madagascar. I followed up with this interview.
This post is the fourth in a series of five consecutive posts covering the issue of artisanal gemstone mining from a macro perspective of two people in the field. ~ Marc Choyt, Editor
The Interview
MC: First, can you tell us something about who you are? How long have you been in the gemstone trade? What kind of company do you have? How many people do you employ?
MM: I am Mr. Mohamed N. Mnzava (50 yrs old), a Tanzanian. I have been in the Gemstones mining and trading business for more than 17 years (since 1989). I registered my company – Chambers Precious Stones in Tanzania in year 1990 as a mining and gemstones trading company. The company has 4 people as full time and 20 casual (part time).
MC: Where do your source your gemstones from and who do you sell them to?
MM: I source over 90% of my Gemstones from Tanzanian small scale miners and brokers. Most of my suppliers are people I have known for a long period and who we have been working together for a long time.
Most small scale miners operate without licenses, but most brokers are licensed. Sometimes I do get small lots of gemstones from associates (importers from neighboring countries -notably Msumbiji, Zambia, Malawi and DR of Congo)
MC: In your comment, you spoke of the “true nature of the way most foreign gemstone dealers… undermine governments in Africa.” Can you elaborate on what you mean by this specifically?
MM: Specifically, all foreign buyers with registered companies stationed here in Tanzania pay very little prices for gemstones they buy here. I have many examples of prices being paid here by foreign buyers, most of which reflect a 10 – 20 % only of the average market prices they sell, some of which we can find in their websites.
I have witnessed buyers paying US $0.9 for a gram of Sunset Tourmalines (2gm up size) which they sell openly at above US $10 per gram in the foreign buyers websites, after only one week after buying the stones here. There are many examples some which show extra ordinary differences in price ratios.
I know a lot of foreign buyers who have registered companies here, and not one of them have ever provided any formal Gemstone trading knowledge or school sponsorship to people who are working for them so that they can one day be self reliant in this trade.
MC: If a gem dealer comes to someone like yourself, or an artisan miner and buys the gems, why is it, as you say, that “there is more to loose with the foreign buyer than gain?”
MM: It’s in principle that because they do take what they do not fairly pay for it’s an unfair game, and in any unfair game be it gambling of football, one side one is loosing, one side is being robbed. In every field Fairness is a just cause….
For example, all foreign buyers here (in here referred as Gem dealer) do buy Rough gemstones only. They do not buy cut stones. It’s obvious that the best price anyone can get for gemstones is to sell cut stones. In this context the artisan miner, they do not have any option of getting the best from the trade unless they can have access to the cut stones markets.
Also the buying prices offered by these foreign buyers are too low and this makes the cycle of poverty a closed circuit for the artisans who will never get out of poverty as they will always be poor and helpless.
Take into account that Gemstones are items which can not be replaced or replenished once they have been mined. It’s obvious that in a fixed period of time, all the gemstones have been mined and finished. The small scale miners will still have no better position because whatever they are being paid can not suffice any other project except subsistence living.
This is all very obvious to the population in and around mining areas where billions worth of gemstones have been mined and still people are in abject squalid poverty. What have they gained, if they can not even send their kids to school, can not have proper sanitation, no medical care, no proper housing?
How would you feel if your guest leaves your home richer then when he came in, used you energy, body and mind, took away your every available natural god given resources, and you are left with an empty and door less house so you can not feed your wife and kids? Instead, you are left sick, old and tired? Will you welcome him next time he knocks your door? Have you gained or lost? I am sure it’s all a loosing game here.
MC: What in your view would make the current system fairer for artisan small scale miners in your region?
MM: The best and foremost trading step stone is to set a Gemstone exchange with a regulatory body which will be acting for the artisan, small scale miners, brokers and local
Tanzanian gemstones dealers.
Secondarily, to give proper gemstones trade information and knowledge to the above mentioned stake holders.
Third, the setting of a bimonthly free newsletter with an intention of reaching a mass audience of the stakeholders so as to inform them of market needs/trends and fluctuations.
MC: What in your view would make the current system fairer for gem dealers in your region?
MM: First, the foreign buyers should be buying gemstones in regulated Gemstone exchange markets as mentioned above, supervised by stakeholders.
Second, foreign buyers should not be allowed to go to the mines (most of which a remote) where people lack information and are susceptible to selling their stones with limited or outdated trade information. Otherwise, allowance can be made on this with limited supervision.
This should hold until artisans have enough awareness and knowledge to the basics on gemstones trading. There is too much to do here, and this forum/interview can not accommodate that much. I assume that this is for setting an agenda for action…
MC: Do you know about groups such as the Association of Responsible Mining (ARM), which has been working with the artisan mining sector to create fair trade standards? Do you believe fair trade principles would be something that would help the small scale miners? If so, what would constitute “fair trade” in your view?
MM: Yes, I know about ARM and personally believe in their principles. But they have still to come up with better techniques of empowering the artisans/small scale miners with knowledge/education, which I believe is the best tool to fight.
The saying goes – knowledge is power. The artisans do not have this tool no matter how much any other effort is put in, the work will be hard and long…..
MC: If you had the power to make three changes to the current system, what would they be?
MM: It’s all about one thing, in principle its Education / knowledge. Educate the artisans/small miners and local dealers on their basics rights; basic and advanced gemstones mining/identification knowledge; trade information and techniques related to gemstones trade; laws under the Tanzanian Mining Act.
With education and knowledge, these people will be at a position to defend their rights for land grabbing and pollution of their areas, including aquifers and streams. They will know how to act according to the local mining rights (the mining act) and even resist to any form of unfairness.
It’s always easier for anyone with education / knowledge to engage in a fight to defend or demand their basic rights. If it takes resistance, courts of law, strikes or any other form of fair resistance.
We need to have principle amendments which shall guarantee the rights of indigenous people or their whole communities where any gemstones or minerals have or will be found. It has to be done in the current Tanzania Mining Act.
MC: Is there anything else that you would like to add?
MM: Establishment of a permanent gemstone trade/mining data centre, where all stakeholders will be able to have easy and immediate access to information of what is going on in all major and other parts of the world, gemstones markets.
Education, education, knowledge…. this is the key to a door of liberty, the first steps to know that your rights are being denied. It is the way to know that someone there is unfair to you….
